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-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   N900 not coming to United States anytime soon (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31076)

Team C 2009-08-28 22:59
N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
From yesterdays Linux Insider
The Nokia N900 will be available in select markets starting in October at about $713. It's not likely to come to the United States any time soon.

"Nokia has other things in the hopper for the U.S. market, namely growing its presence and building smartphones for CDMA networks," IDC's Llamas explained. "It could be a while until we see the new devices here."
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/67971.html

This, if true really sucks. If the phone were subsidized by T-Mobile it would go for about $250.00 to 350.00 with a one year contract. Now you would have to pay full retail and if the phone is not "officially" for sale in the United States you could have problems if you need to use the warranty. The fact the phone is not up on the USA Nokia website is a bad sign as well. Bummer if true

jandmdickerson 2009-08-28 23:09
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
So it just went through the FCC process so it could languish? :confused:

So far the "leaks" have been better sources (than the normal tech review blogs) and the leaks say North America in October....;)

zerojay 2009-08-28 23:13
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team C (Post 317611)
From yesterdays Linux Insider
The Nokia N900 will be available in select markets starting in October at about $713. It's not likely to come to the United States any time soon.

"Nokia has other things in the hopper for the U.S. market, namely growing its presence and building smartphones for CDMA networks," IDC's Llamas explained. "It could be a while until we see the new devices here."
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/67971.html

This, if true really sucks. If the phone were subsidized by T-Mobile it would go for about $250.00 to 350.00 with a one year contract. Now you would have to pay full retail and if the phone is not "officially" for sale in the United States you could have problems if you need to use the warranty. The fact the phone is not up on the USA Nokia website is a bad sign as well. Bummer if true
If there's anything I've learned about analysts, it's that they are full of **** 90% of the time.

sachin007 2009-08-28 23:13
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team C (Post 317611)
From yesterdays Linux Insider
The Nokia N900 will be available in select markets starting in October at about $713. It's not likely to come to the United States any time soon.

"Nokia has other things in the hopper for the U.S. market, namely growing its presence and building smartphones for CDMA networks," IDC's Llamas explained. "It could be a while until we see the new devices here."
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/67971.html

This, if true really sucks. If the phone were subsidized by T-Mobile it would go for about $250.00 to 350.00 with a one year contract. Now you would have to pay full retail and if the phone is not "officially" for sale in the United States you could have problems if you need to use the warranty. The fact the phone is not up on the USA Nokia website is a bad sign as well. Bummer if true
Thats because t-mobile want exclusivity and they will announce it at nokia world and then the nokia usa store will open.

krisse 2009-08-28 23:19
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317623)
If there's anything I've learned about analysts, it's that they are full of **** 90% of the time.
I remember in 2004-ish, some highly-paid analysts predicted the Nintendo Wii would come in third place with the PS3 dominating the majority market. All they were doing was looking at what had happened in the past and extrapolated it to the future.

And remember a few months ago when there were analysts claiming Nokia had dropped Maemo in favour of Android?

And for literally years before that there were analysts claiming Nokia was going to imminently drop Symbian in favour of Windows Mobile.

Really you have to wonder what these people are paid for. The only predictions most analysts seem to get right are the ones that are so short term and predictable that no one could get them wrong. Anything long term (i.e. anything actually useful) and they just seem to spout any old random cobblers.

christexaport 2009-08-28 23:41
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Nokia has been making a point of focusing on the US market, and I bet we get it before anyone else. The big developer talent in the world is in Russia, India, China, and the US, and of those, the US is the only one with a recovering economy and the financials to make it a hit if it goes well.

christexaport 2009-08-28 23:42
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
but i'm only guessing, not stating fact

zerojay 2009-08-28 23:54
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 317643)
but i'm only guessing, not stating fact
Congrats. You're now an analyst. :)

dansus 2009-08-29 00:01
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Take a look at the keynote speakers at Nokia World, after the CEO of Nokia is Rene Obermann, CEO, Deutsche Telekom.

Seems incredulous that Tmobile wont release this world wide and after FCC cert, it seems a dead cert. ;)

daveb70 2009-08-29 00:03
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317654)
Congrats. You're now an analyst. :)
I LOL'ed while eating a BK big fish and nearly choked. Thanks a lot ZJ!

Sorry, the usual thanks just didn't suffice. And I agree about your analysts statement. The only thing worse is a financial analyst. :D

zerojay 2009-08-29 00:07
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb70 (Post 317663)
I LOL'ed while eating a BK big fish and nearly choked. Thanks a lot ZJ!

Sorry, the usual thanks just didn't suffice. And I agree about your analysts statement. The only thing worse is a financial analyst. :D
Click "Thanks" anyways, dammit. ;P

Texrat 2009-08-29 00:31
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317623)
If there's anything I've learned about analysts, it's that they are full of **** 90% of the time.
Hey! I'm full of it 95% of the time. Don't shortchange this analyst's BS! :p

glabifrons 2009-08-29 02:03
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
T-mobile? Gawd, I hope not!
They are pathological about hobbling everything!

The HipTop/SideKick started out a nice device with a strong developer network... they locked it down so you had to be a published developer to get a key to install software that they didn't have in their "store"... which absolutely blows. There were a ton of apps on the (former) SideKick Developer Network site that I wanted, and I didn't care if they were "beta" or not. In case it doesn't stand out... if you can't test the app on your device, you can't release it, so when they changed the rules for becoming a developer, they essentially shut any new devs out.

Now look at what they did with the G1... which I would absolutely love to have, but they're locking down a device that you're not supposed to be able to lock down.
I was thinking about paying full retail for one and switching to AT&T, but I've read that they even hobbled the radio so you can't use the G1 on AT&T's frequencies! (I sincerely hope what I read was bull)
In case you're wondering... I like the G1's keyboard. None of the other Androids have anything close. Heck, I'd rank that keyboard way above the one on the N900 (though I think I'd prefer the Nokia if the price were more realistic).

I'm afraid of what they'll do to this thing when they get their greedy mits on it.

Disclosure: I've owned the SideKick (1) Color and SideKick 2 for about 6 years, and if it weren't for T-Mobile, I would probably have bought the SK3 when it came out.
They really do have a F*(# the customer attitude.

(if you want specifics, I can write a book)

Team C 2009-08-29 02:24
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Well I hope it is wrong but the N97 and other Nokias phones have passed FCC with 3g bands for at&t yet they were not sold through or subsidized by them. I am going to get it regardless unless the warranty is not valid here.

glabifrons
T-Mobile didn't hobble the G1 any more than At&t hobbled the iphone by not including T-mobile 3g bands on it. Thats just how its done here

fattomm 2009-08-29 02:31
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team C (Post 317719)
glabifrons
T-Mobile didn't hobble the G1 any more than At&t hobbled the iphone by not including T-mobile 3g bands on it. Thats just how its done here
Aw, let's just continue to whine that the carrier subsidized phone is "hobbled" to ... the carrier.

Choke up the cash for the non-carrier-subsidized version, and you don't get the lock down (or, pay off the phone, and get the unlock code ...).

I left Verizon so I /could/ get a non-carrier phone -- and have been glad to pay the extra $$ ever since.

YoDude 2009-08-29 03:05
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabifrons (Post 317713)
T-mobile? Gawd, I hope not!
They are pathological about hobbling everything!

The HipTop/SideKick started out a nice device with a strong developer network... they locked it down so you had to be a published developer to get a key to install software that they didn't have in their "store"... which absolutely blows. There were a ton of apps on the (former) SideKick Developer Network site that I wanted, and I didn't care if they were "beta" or not. In case it doesn't stand out... if you can't test the app on your device, you can't release it, so when they changed the rules for becoming a developer, they essentially shut any new devs out.

Now look at what they did with the G1... which I would absolutely love to have, but they're locking down a device that you're not supposed to be able to lock down.
I was thinking about paying full retail for one and switching to AT&T, but I've read that they even hobbled the radio so you can't use the G1 on AT&T's frequencies! (I sincerely hope what I read was bull)
In case you're wondering... I like the G1's keyboard. None of the other Androids have anything close. Heck, I'd rank that keyboard way above the one on the N900 (though I think I'd prefer the Nokia if the price were more realistic).

I'm afraid of what they'll do to this thing when they get their greedy mits on it.

Disclosure: I've owned the SideKick (1) Color and SideKick 2 for about 6 years, and if it weren't for T-Mobile, I would probably have bought the SK3 when it came out.
They really do have a F*(# the customer attitude.

(if you want specifics, I can write a book)
Sign-up for a new line. Receive subsidized (reduced cost) device. Cancel service within the initial grace period because of "poor signal" or "bad coverage" in the areas you intend to use it. Unlock device. Rock on. :eek:

I think the whole locking a device to the service provider initially was a way to discourage ^that behavior.

I'm sure that technicly your supposed to box up your used device and ship it back and wait 90 days for a refund but... what are they going to do with a used device when they recieve it back 30 days after it was first released?
Something tells me they either don't or can't make much effort to retrieve a device that was not returned and just cut their losses with what money that was paid for the dang thing at signing. Why else would they bother locking down the thing in the first place?

paulkoan 2009-08-29 03:45
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
What is the feasibility of boycotting simless CDMA networks in the US?

Their prevalence seems to be the reason this happens to you guys. Is there GSM coverage everywhere?

Texrat 2009-08-29 04:03
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulkoan (Post 317743)
What is the feasibility of boycotting simless CDMA networks in the US?

Their prevalence seems to be the reason this happens to you guys. Is there GSM coverage everywhere?
I can't see such a boycott succeeding... too few people here want to do more than grumble occasionally. Americans have gotten "good" over the years at ceding real choice for immediate convenience. :rolleyes:

But there is great GSM coverage, anyway. Spotty depending on carrier and locale, but great overall. I drove from north Texas to southern California a few years ago and only lost signal (AT&T) for a few minutes in the west Texas mountains. Other than that it was crystal clear and consistent.

joeD 2009-08-29 04:40
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
"Nokia has other things in the hopper for the U.S. market, namely growing its presence and building smartphones for CDMA networks," IDC's Llamas explained. "It could be a while until we see the new devices here."
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/67971.htmlOTE]


This is a standard ploy of publish or perish. Thes editors gotta have something to write about or you're out on the street eating saltines and bread crumbs.

And I am full of BS 99% of the time. Cheers!

benny1967 2009-08-29 08:43
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabifrons (Post 317713)
Now look at what they did with the G1... which I would absolutely love to have, but they're locking down a device that you're not supposed to be able to lock down.
??? Why shouldn't one be able to lock it down? They chose Android's licence very carefully so vendors and carriers would be able to lock it down completely. Contrary to what marketing tries to make you believe, Android is not an open system. The SDK is open source, but what's on your phone needn't be and usually isn't.

livefreeordie 2009-08-29 09:35
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 317781)
??? Why shouldn't one be able to lock it down? They chose Android's licence very carefully so vendors and carriers would be able to lock it down completely. Contrary to what marketing tries to make you believe, Android is not an open system. The SDK is open source, but what's on your phone needn't be and usually isn't.
Absolutely true. This message needs to be spread more imho, because otherwise the American FOSS crowd may end up supporting the wrong platform just because it's Google.

Another "analyst" prediction I've read since the launch is that the N900 is a step in the right direction, but the choice to use Symbian on cheaper devices is questionable, because it would also need a UI overhaul. The coming UI overhaul is, of course, public knowledge.

YoDude 2009-08-29 11:53
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
The true cost of "capitalism"... :D


Or as we say in Philadelphia; "Yo AT&T, subsidize this." (grabs crotch).

>> http://www.billshrink.com/blog/mobil...costs-service/

christexaport 2009-08-29 12:21
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317654)
Congrats. You're now an analyst. :)
How cute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317623)
If there's anything I've learned about analysts, it's that they are full of **** 90% of the time.
Me being an actual analyst, I resent that. :mad: But I think being an analyst means standing in the fire when you're wrong. I just rarely am. ;) And I'm sure it was only a joke, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansus (Post 317661)
Take a look at the keynote speakers at Nokia World, after the CEO of Nokia is Rene Obermann, CEO, Deutsche Telekom.

Seems incredulous that Tmobile wont release this world wide and after FCC cert, it seems a dead cert. ;)
If you search back to 2007 and 2008 on Symbian Freak, you'll see that I'd predicted Nokia could leverage its global relationship with Deutsche Telekom/TMobile to gain traction in the US, with a possible global temporary exclusive, or at least a US exclusive. The next move would be quadband 3G radios in premium devices.

I may not be one of the guys at Gartners or Accenture, but I know my stuff, and I do it all on my own with no budget. So I promise that while others spit 90% bulls..t, I'm probably one of the closest to hitting the mark most of the time, as I'm always told.

I think once you get to know me, you'll respect my opinion more. I've earned my respect, and never felt entitled, so I hope you give my predictions a chance. The Nokia World event will have a small G1 debut-like component for Maemo5/N900.

There's my 10%.

christexaport 2009-08-29 12:30
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
The reason devices are "crippled" isn't the carrier's fault. The FCC decides which frequencies get used, and since there are no more licenses for 850/1900, the only new bandwidth is in 1700/2100. This is good for TMobileUSA, since their entire network is set up this way, whereas the others that have capacity issues can only increase bandwidth with the nascent frequencies, meaning its devices would be forced to add 1700/2100 for a small coverage area just to ensure compatibility. They avoid that with the plague, because it'd mean their devices would work on TMobile's system, something they avoid at all costs. TMobileUSA is on an isolated frequency, and not many people make devices for it yet, but Nokia is about the only non Android company making one. HTC has some WinMo kit in the door as well.

The real magic button is getting the US to force all GSM radios in new unlocked devices support both carriers via quadband WCDMA. That is what would cause our market to explode. Whether it will happen is another issue. The arrival of LTE may slow that initiative, which I support, but LTE can also negate the need for it altogether, assuming a voice standard for LTE emerges.

That's included in my 10%, btw. The other 90% I reserve for the student loan collectors and my girlfriend when I get myself in trouble.

christexaport 2009-08-29 12:32
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by livefreeordie (Post 317790)
Another "analyst" prediction I've read since the launch is that the N900 is a step in the right direction, but the choice to use Symbian on cheaper devices is questionable, because it would also need a UI overhaul. The coming UI overhaul is, of course, public knowledge.
I'll be covering that issue in my article on Symbian Freak pretty soon, maybe this morning, now that you mention it.

christexaport 2009-08-29 12:33
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Here's a clue:
That analyst? Speaking from his 90% allotment! LOL

sachin007 2009-08-29 14:32
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=htt...CZnTl0zas1U_vg

ming387 2009-08-29 15:17
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Totally agree on opinions of analyst have worthless opinions.

(corrected in respect to texrat)

@christexaport
I don't think the maemo community know much about symbian-freak since s60 got nothing to do with the people here... lol

Texrat 2009-08-29 15:36
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
You know, ming387, a joke like zerojay's is one thing-- there's no reason to outright insult. We analysts are people too... and not at all worthless.

And Chris-- good to see you here. Hopefully we can get another DFW meetup going soon. I need to use you guys as guinea pigs for a presentation test. :D

ming387 2009-08-29 15:45
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 317905)
You know, ming387, a joke like zerojay's is one thing-- there's no reason to outright insult. We analysts are people too... and not at all worthless.

And Chris-- good to see you here. Hopefully we can get another DFW meetup going soon. I need to use you guys as guinea pigs for a presentation test. :D
I corrected my comment.

BTW, anybody know what penguinbait is doing?

I hope he have a proto of the N900 - he did some really good work for the maemo community.

YoDude 2009-08-29 20:14
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by christexaport (Post 317833)
Here's a clue:
That analyst? Speaking from his 90% allotment! LOL
I've gotta call a whiskey, tango, foxtrot on that big guy... I don't know what happened but I see 3 successive posts by you. Are you replying to yourself or was this thread edited. :confused:

benny1967 2009-08-29 20:51
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by livefreeordie (Post 317790)
otherwise the American FOSS crowd may end up supporting the wrong platform just because it's Google.
"because it's Google"? wouldn't that be "even though it's google"? people who are interested in free software etc. usually stay away as far away as possible from google. bad, bad reputation.

zerojay 2009-08-29 20:58
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
By the way, I had absolutely no idea that chris WAS an analyst. What I said was partially a joke and it's through experiences where I had inside info on quite a few different things (completely unrelated to tablets, Nokia, cell phones, etc...) only to hear analysts "guarantee" things that were completely wrong.

livefreeordie 2009-08-29 21:08
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 318034)
"because it's Google"? wouldn't that be "even though it's google"? people who are interested in free software etc. usually stay away as far away as possible from google. bad, bad reputation.
Google has plenty of misguided Linux followers who don't understand why it's not enough to use the kernel to run a virtual machine.

Phen0m 2009-08-29 22:15
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Please 'scuse the ignorance, as i've been under the (un?)friendly confines of sprint since..forever.. but how are issues handled with unlocked phones via carrier insurance?

Say i buy the N900 unlocked and the phone acts up, needs servicing or replacing.. do i turn to Nokia, or the carrier its under?

Dr Tran 2009-08-29 22:25
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Go to local Chinatown. Find shady looking phone shop. Find N900. Get 2 line T-Mobile family plan. Get free N900.

I did this when the N95-1 first came out. The receipt said $800 but I only paid for the activation.

mjc 2009-08-29 22:29
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phen0m (Post 318065)
Say i buy the N900 unlocked and the phone acts up, needs servicing or replacing.. do i turn to Nokia, or the carrier its under?
Treat it like any hardware purchase.

If you don't buy from the carrier you cannot expect hardware support from them.

Support would be from Nokia. Maybe seller if problems occur shortly after purchase.

barry99705 2009-08-29 23:14
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 317683)
Hey! I'm full of it 95% of the time. Don't shortchange this analyst's BS! :p
Don't worry dude, 4/3 people have trouble with fractions and 87% of statistics on the internet are made up. :D

Phen0m 2009-08-30 00:27
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc (Post 318074)
Treat it like any hardware purchase.

If you don't buy from the carrier you cannot expect hardware support from them.

Support would be from Nokia. Maybe seller if problems occur shortly after purchase.
Well the reason i ask is because i've never purchased a phone directly from Sprint, yet their insurance always covered any issues i've had..replacements or otherwise(Touch Pro at the moment, purchased from a private party).
But Thanks for the info!

christexaport 2009-08-31 02:57
Re: N900 not coming to United States anytime soon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ming387 (Post 317892)
Totally agree on opinions of analyst have worthless opinions.

(corrected in respect to texrat)

@christexaport
I don't think the maemo community know much about symbian-freak since s60 got nothing to do with the people here... lol
You must not know the direction Symbian is headed in, then! Symbian and Maemo will be forever tied when Symbian^4 is released, because the main app developer toolkit will be based on Qt, and pretty much any Qt app on Maemo will be easily ported to Symbian as well. And despite the rumors, Symbian isn't dead. It fits a niche Maemo isn't suited for. The N900 is an almost minimum hardware setup for Maemo, requiring 3D for the UI, etc., whereas Symbian is more versatile as far as hardware is concerned.

so Symbian and Maemo are of the same bloodline come 18 months from now.


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