Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

This topic has been in discussions under various threads, and just to keep it separated, i opened a new thread.

So, OH with eInk display.

I have this at my desk
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m...o/13090035.jpg

So maybe i can check could the arduino wire-slave to interface with Jolla.

Other links: http://www.adafruit.com/products/1346

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Shortly about the BADGEr board (http://wyolum.com/projects/badger/) and connecting it to Jolla (reminder to self)

• It is Arduino compatible, and has I2C routed to "shield" connector, however it is connected through level converter TXS0108. It can only convert to higher voltages (as it is connected in such way). So I2C needs to be wired to SDA_3V3/SCL_3V3 signals
• ATMEGA328 datasheet has promising figure 31-309 showing VIH close to 1.8V when VCC=3.3V, but then table 29-19 gives VIH specifically for I2C 0.7xVCC (might or might not need level conversion)
• Powered by 3V coin cell, so connecting external 3.3V is no problem.
• Hook a opendrain GPIO to drive interrupt when display has been updated, and allow to shutdown.
• Eats WIF format from SD card, should be easy to modify to get that over I2C in some sort of packets. I think "streaming" is not feasible here (dunno)
• About Arduino Wire slave receiving data: http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/MasterWriter

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

I'm really looking forward to something useable here! eInk OH was in my top 3 ideas when the OH concept was revealed, all along extended battery and the allmighty keyboard. :)

Keep up the great work (please)!

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Too bad you can't get a wysips sample and place it there layered in with the E-ink to both power the E-ink display plus charge the battery.

Maybe you can email the company and ask for a sample for this project. The wysips is transparent and layers with a touch screen. If you made an E-ink display other half that charges the phone and you got it on the market in the next 6 months in volume you would absolutely kill it, you would sell so many.

Just picture your phone is charging everytime you lay it face down on a table and the E-ink display has time, weather and notifications and you run a little inlay of glowpaint running in a line going around where the other half joins the front (or maybe a little higher up if that proves unable to absorb enough light) it would look like a mini steam box, that would be sick. Glowpaint sells the granules so that you can embed it into plastic.
And you could have a small pocket in it to insert a 128gb sd card and a usb 3.0 connection on it and you walk around with steam OS on it with all your steam games on it and you run steam OS live USB when you hook it to a computer.
Also the wysips on the e-ink would have LiFi and you could open garden app that shizzle to mesh network it with your other devices.

And then you could make a moga game pad type other half with the other half split in 2 with hinges and you flip it over and it locks with your left and right game controls with phone still in the center of gravity so you don't drop it and it also has the sd card pocket so that the sd card that you slipped out of your e-ink other half and that you have conveniently partitioned to be half steam OS and half android games so that you can have all the free to play moga enhanced games on it pop up because of nfc and also battery on this other half.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/04/y...hone-hands-on/

Something similar would be cool!

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

CNET also reviewed it. http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...-35560814.html

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Do you keep working on an eInk OH prototype, or are you focusing on other current projects (OLED and UART)? There is an awesome potential in the eInk project, such an OH could do what the OLED will do, plus some additional things, although it won't have colours.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

ATM no progress on this eInk TOH.
Working on 'toholed', 'tohuart', and one other, and helping dirkvl with 'tohkbd'... and doing my dayjob too.

Maybe when i get some bandwith, but i assume there are some other people working on the eInk stuff somewhere ? huhuu haloo? are you there? come out loud!

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Well, this is, for sure, a very interesting project.
However, there are only so many hours in a day and there are so many other cool projects as well...

On the technical side, so far, nearly all e-paper displays I found use SPI. iirc, I found none using i2c.
So, if someone has any pointers on e-paper displays with integrated i2c support, that'd be great.
Also, it seems like that the VCC may be a problem as well as we only have 3.3V out of the box and some displays require different voltages; some even require a set of different voltages.

Any further input is highly appreciated.

Edit:
This is likely OT in here but I just found the following display:
http://www.lcd-module.de/fileadmin/e...ogxl240-7e.pdf
This might fit better in the OLED thread.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Interesting prototype e-ink display accessory for Alcatel One Touch Hero:
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsim...marena_904.jpg

I wonder if we can find the screen offered somewhere? The accessory is attached to the phone by a row of pogo pins, maybe it uses I2C too?

Some more info in the original article:
http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_one_...iew-1035p3.php

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

hey mate whats 'tohuart' project? you need links in your signature

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

I hate signatures but here is ittybitty now.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Approached one eink display manufacturer for custom size... lets see.
this is SPI panel, so need a micro inbetween to "convert" i2c to spi, but that is no problem.

Active area with this is about max 52 x 80 mm as there is some frame around it, and to keep it thin, flex cable eats some space close to camera.

Corresponds to a 3.7" diagonal size.

below is quick illustration how it could look.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Seriously Kimmoli, if you achieve some eInk OH that size (the bigger the better for eInk, and if I understand well, this would be the max possible) and if the software side works correctly, then I'll give my kidney for one. Add me to the list of the "Shut up and take my money" already.

Ideal final features would be:

• 1. notifications (like for the OLED);
  
• 2. ability to automatically send to eInk what was displayed on the main screen when you pressed power key to lock it (this will not close applications like the swipe down), this way you can easily chose what to display on eInk while saving power in only one move; let's say that locking the main screen with the swipe down (from homescreen/lockscreen/launcher) would rather trigger the aforementioned "notification" mode, so that both modes can be achieved easily without menus or options;
  # Would only send static display, no videos of course, but that wouldn't be a problem as eInk is not made for dynamic content
  
• 3. ability to automatically display certain files to the eInk (epubs, etc.);
  # Might be useless if the above can be achieved
  
• 4. ability set eInk "dynamic" usage on/off by running the TOHeInk app, i.e., make Sailfish understand that the user is currently using eInk as main display: when on, you can use hardware volume keys to turn pages of the PDF or ePub (or scroll a webpage?) that was displayed fullscreen when you pressed the power key to transfer the display and lock the LCD (see #2 feature).

If all that can be achieved, seriously, this is gonna be in the Top 2 must have OH together with the keyboard. Easily. And the keyboard will not be for everybody anyway (plus the experience will heavily depend on how Sailfish can be adapted with landscape mode, keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+C, and ability to hide VKB, so a lot of challenges remaining).

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

And what i'm expected to do with that?

To get all of these i will need someone to help with the sw...

• 1. notifications (like for the OLED);

  Can be done

• 2. ability to automatically send to eInk what was displayed on the main screen when you pressed power key to lock it (this will not close applications like the swipe down), this way you can easily chose what to display on eInk while saving power in only one move; let's say that locking the main screen with the swipe down (from homescreen/lockscreen/launcher) would rather trigger the aforementioned "notification" mode, so that both modes can be achieved easily without menus or options;
  # Would only send static display, no videos of course, but that wouldn't be a problem as eInk is not made for dynamic content

  Need to get powerbutton event, make screencapture, rescale it, dither to monochrome, send it to the screen...sounds like python and pil ...

• 3. ability to automatically display certain files to the eInk (epubs, etc.);
  # Might be useless if the above can be achieved

  Maybe it could work like "share with toh" ??

• 4. ability set eInk "dynamic" usage on/off by running the TOHeInk app, i.e., make Sailfish understand that the user is currently using eInk as main display: when on, you can use hardware volume keys to turn pages of the PDF or ePub (or scroll a webpage?) that was displayed fullscreen when you pressed the power key to transfer the display and lock the LCD (see #2 feature).

  This is too difficult, to make eInk to be main display. Maybe a eReader app could be done to view text-files.
  Other needs rendering of content or to be done by the screencapture-rescale-dither method (which results loss of details (e.g. thin texts will be lost)

It is time for scotch-tape-proto :D ...lets connect that 2.7" display to the phone...

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Fast responce from manufacturer.
Unfortunately custom size requires tooling which is too expensive, "several tens of thousand dollars", recommended to use standard product.

(Good thing about the 2.7" display is that it is available from e.g. digikey for about 20€/each)

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Bad news, it may remove one of the most interesting features of the eInk screen (yet difficult to achieve), the ability to send anything to this screen (after resizing as you said) to save energy. In 2.7", it will be limited. Notifications would still be really useful, and I still want one. :)

What about 3.5"?

eInk screen "E-Paper GDE035A3": http://www.aliexpress.com/item/E-ink...570825797.html, $ 28 US.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Have to check that out, thanks.

Meanwhile, some photos... goodnight.

First unneccessary photo of key ingredients...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...140126_002.jpg

The i2ctool is in use here too:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j...o/14010035.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t...o/14010037.jpg

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Awesomness incoming, thanks Kimmoli. :)

By the way, I just noticed that the 3.5" screen in my link is quite thin as shown in the third image, and the bezel around it is thin too (plus the PCB part is on the small side and apparently won't block Jolla's camera). Perhaps a 4" would fit, and the low thickness of the screen could keep the TOHeInk thinner than expected?

I bet there are cons with this eInk screen, but I have no experience with e-paper so I can't say. Is the connector standard?

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Haven't been round TMO much for ~several wks, just quickly catching-up on all the developments...
Geezus Kimmoli's proving to be a one man manufacturing army, the amt of projects he's juggling, he must be a very busy man!

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Jolla should just hand him the bare SoC for next phone and start manufacturing whatever Kimmoli builds around it.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Very goog idea! Before that Kimmoli should make eink-wireless charging-keyboard-combo-toh. Like Swiss knife with everyhting on it.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

A TOH with built in swiss card could actually be useful. (:

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Great work, kimmoli - hats off to you.

An eReader app on eInk, assuming we can shut off the main display on the Jolla, would extend battery life for quite some time (I read books/PDFs from the phone at least an hour a day...).

Great photos! Thank you for all your work.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

I got some more auspicious communication from one display manufacturer, but it might take a while.

Unitl then, work on 2.7" version will slowly continue.

meanwhile, the badger is ATMEGA328 based, which has low amount of memory, and therefore the display buffer is located on the SD card.

I haven't yet figured out is it possible to have the bufffer internally if use micro with larger RAM.

But it also can show images (or ebooks) stored in the SD card, so it could be that this SD card is available externally (?) (but the display will only work when SD card is inserted)

Early 3d sketch:

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Returning to this, actually it is "Dalian Good Display Co.,ltd" product.
This needs +15V, -15V, +22V and -20V voltages and waveforms generated externally. (Recommended to use external ASIC)

Reminds me of one year-ago epaper project with kindle display, which i fustrated to while not getting timings right..
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6...140129_002.jpg

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Do I understand it right that this 3.5" eInk screen cannot be used for TOHeInk? Now you make me sad Kimmoli!

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Don't cry... It just needs a lot more hw around it (and work) compared to the smaller one.
And the get-it-working-properly odds are smaller.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

You made my tears dry out Kimmoli.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

back to this project while waiting prints...

Got one loose 2.7" display today and breakout board.

Then need to pick a microcontroller to do the job. atmega328 or any other used on arduino would be easy as has most of the sw ready. but i have something personal against atmel. maybe i will make testing with teensy 3.1 which i should have few somewhere.
http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy31.jpg
This is familiar to me, supports most of the arduino libraries. Programming firmware to the K20 used on teensy custom designs requires auxiliary cpu, but it can be hooked on programming adapter (this is the small MINI54 on the lower left corner)

Have to check memory requirements of used libs, but this has 256kB flash and 64kB ram (compared to atmega328 32kB flash and 2kB ram) so maybe no sd card needed...

below is first block-diagram.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

crap. seems that i haven't saved latest arduino sketch...
but it was something like this. (todo: rewrite @ JHD)

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

From Jolla Hack Day 22.2.2014

http://t.co/Ti6GV8cRTg

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Awesome :)

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

just wondering how the progress is going and if there are any plans for pre-orders hehehe

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Taking up one of my old ideas here, though it would require a larger, touch-capable e-Ink display:

How about combining this project with dirkvl's project and making an e-Ink keyboard? By adding the slider mechanism from the qwerty-OH, and adding a thin silicone overlay that gives a tactile segmentation of the display into key-sized squares, it might be possible to have an e-Ink-keyboard that becomes thinner than the qwerty-OH and can adapt on the fly to any keyboard layout you want.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

What is the benefit of an e-ink keyboard, its still a touch screen keyboard, right? And that one you already have on the jolla

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Well, a touch screen keyboard isn't actually bad in some ways:

• It reacts very fast since the keypress occurs as soon as you touch the "key", without the delay of moving the key physically
• It is ergonomic, since no force has to be applied to pressing they key. Note that the lack of physical movement of the keys don't really mean a disadvantage, you can type much "softer", hitting the keys with much less force on a touch keyboard. This also increases typing speed.
• It can change configuration dynamically, such as depending on what app it is being used for, or depending on keyboard modifiers you are touching at the moment.

The main problems for touch typing on a touch keyboard:

• There is no physical feedback to tell you where on the keyboard you are touching it (are you right, left or center to hitting the key? Or are you just between two keys?).
• Compared to a full-size keyboard, a mobile phone keyboard is much smaller, making touch typing harder.
• When maximizing the size of a virtual keyboard by placing the phone in landscape mode, so little screen real-estate remains for the application that it often becomes a problem to navigate the text-entry fields.

If you are able to get past the pre-conception that the longer key-travel a keyboard has, the more ergonomic it is (consider the very short travel of the famous Thinkpad keyboards of the IBM-age, and compare to the long travel of an old mechanical typewriter), you can start focusing on the main problem; the lack of lateral (not vertical!) physical feedback.

The point is that lateral physical feedback is really easy to do! Just paint a grid of silicone squares or make a grid of dots or bulges, and you are done! It can even be thinner than a traditional physical keyboard, since there is no need for the space for keys to move in, and since finger tips are incredibly sensitive, an overlay can be very, very thin. The problem is of course that silicone isn't virtual. However, if you come to terms with having a keyboard without vertical travel, then a dedicated keyboard would let you have a permanent physical overlay, and at the same time avoid stealing your screen space. That is when it becomes really appealing to me!

Full disclosure: I am on Dirkvl's waiting list for a qwerty-OH. But even if I am fully satisfied with the qwerty-OH, I believe I would still buy a dedicated touch keyboard if someone were able to make it.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Ah, to each their own i guess, the feedback i get from vertical travel during typing is irreplaceable hence i prefer i hardware keyboard.

There was a prototype touchscreen developed by Nokia IIRC or a Japanese operator that could lift its surface for a few millimeters at a desired position, thus offering vertical travel and a touch screen that fooled your fingertips that vertical travel occurred via small electrical current but i don't know what happened to them.

When those become a reality, i might reconsider :)

http://www.techinasia.com/kyocera-buttons/

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Reminds me of Tactus. I think that on that matter, it's the most advanced project.

Re: Jolla OtherHalf eInk/ePaper display
 

Daneel, yup, we all have different bodies, so things feel different to us all. However, I only quite recently realized that the vertical feedback isn't really the problem, and that the lateral feedback is much more important to me. You might too, if you dig into it! :-)

The Tactus is very similar to what I am thinking of, however, I think the real estate taken by the keyboard is an important factor too. It might be that the domes of the Tactus are enough to make a portrait keyboard useful so that the lost screen area isn't so big, let's hope!