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2015-11-06
, 10:45
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1612
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Well, if factory doesn't churn out products at the pace and quality expected, or if there is shortage of certain components, there is not much Jolla can do about it as they don't own factories themselves. Regardless how much we advise them to "do it right."
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2015-11-06
, 12:15
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#1613
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Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
True, but, if you make a certain promise, those you gave the promise to have every right to expect that the you have taken every step and precaution to make sure that promise will be met. If things happen beyond your control that mean you cannot fulfill that promise, going silent is about the worst thing you can do. People expect at least an explanation, if not some form of a compensation.
Well, if factory doesn't churn out products at the pace and quality expected, or if there is shortage of certain components, there is not much Jolla can do about it as they don't own factories themselves. Regardless how much we advise them to "do it right."
I find the legths some people go to in order to find excuses based on pure speculation without even a shred of evidence absolutely astounding. Factory problems? Maybe, but those words should come from Jolla, not from Copernicus. And they should be accompanied with Jolla management crawling on their knees and pleading for their customers' forgiveness. And offer a €100 discount on your next purchase or something. Just like any airline has to do if it is late, regardless of if it is their own fault or an errupt volcano in Iceland.
Jolla's management must be rubbing their hands in glee as this exercise clearly proves that they can get away with making any promise in the future without any repercussions should they fail to deliver again.
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2015-11-06
, 12:59
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#1614
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Absolutely no argument here. While it is true that the factory problems I've been mentioning _are_ from words that came from Jolla, I can't say anything to justify their continuing failure to live up to published schedules, nor their continuing failure to say anything at all as their deadlines pass by.
Maybe, but those words should come from Jolla, not from Copernicus.
Honestly, I really should have known that the latest schedule, even if it came straight from Antti Saarnio, was not worth the pixels it was printed on.
For some reason, Jolla just has no firm grasp on this tablet.(And yet, they do manage to make huge progress on Sailfish, and even hit the deadlines that they set there. I'm used to thinking that hardware production is easier to predict than software...)
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2015-11-06
, 13:58
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Posts: 71 |
Thanked: 621 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ UK
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#1615
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Would it be very cynical of me to think that Jolla is maybe only using the Tablet as a means of raising capital for development sailfish as an OS?
Jolla have managed to raise two million (cant remember the exact figure) via the indigogo campaign. This is money that has been paid to them and is/was sitting in the bank. Im not sure how it works, as far as agreements with indigogo, to actually produce, supply etc something for a campaign?. but they can say they have produced and shipped (a very very small number 250-300? ) of Jolla Tablets. No deceit or lies here. In the same way they can say that they did produce and ship (even if a very very small number) the Jolla Phone Battery as promised. No deceit or lies here
In the mean time they can use the majority of the money to fund the development of sailfish as an OS.
They can then drip feed those that have ordered a Jolla Table as and when monies are available from licensing the OS...
Of course if it does all go pear shaped - all will say its a very brave thing they tried, its a difficult market, They almost made it...etc etc
Jolla have managed to raise two million (cant remember the exact figure) via the indigogo campaign. This is money that has been paid to them and is/was sitting in the bank. Im not sure how it works, as far as agreements with indigogo, to actually produce, supply etc something for a campaign?. but they can say they have produced and shipped (a very very small number 250-300? ) of Jolla Tablets. No deceit or lies here. In the same way they can say that they did produce and ship (even if a very very small number) the Jolla Phone Battery as promised. No deceit or lies here
In the mean time they can use the majority of the money to fund the development of sailfish as an OS.
They can then drip feed those that have ordered a Jolla Table as and when monies are available from licensing the OS...
Of course if it does all go pear shaped - all will say its a very brave thing they tried, its a difficult market, They almost made it...etc etc
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2015-11-06
, 14:07
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Posts: 307 |
Thanked: 1,460 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Switzerland
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#1616
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Originally Posted by zenecho
No, I don't think production plants let you do that. It would be horrendously expensive if they actually wanted to produce such small batches.
Would it be very cynical of me to think that Jolla is maybe only using the Tablet as a means of raising capital for development sailfish as an OS?
You can be pretty sure that the factory are forcing this on them. If some big players with fat wallets come along and want extra batches produced in time for Christmas, Jolla get bumped.
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2015-11-06
, 14:23
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#1617
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Originally Posted by zenecho
Not just cynical, but crazy. The major costs involved in producing a consumer product are spent for designing the device, setting up a factory to produce the device, and hiring & training workers to build the device. You only start making a profit once the factory has pumped out enough of them that the difference between the parts cost and the sales price brings in enough money to pay off that initial startup cost.
Would it be very cynical of me to think that Jolla is maybe only using the Tablet as a means of raising capital for development sailfish as an OS?
Jolla has _already_ done all the startup work, as evidenced by their ability to actually produce about 200 units of the final product. So, they've already spent a whole lot of money here (almost guaranteed more than they raised from Indiegogo). Unless they somehow manage to turn things around and start producing this tablet in volume, they're going to be in a big financial hole here...
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2015-11-06
, 14:37
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Posts: 1,290 |
Thanked: 4,319 times |
Joined on Oct 2014
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#1618
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
However, Indiegogo is not the only finance source.
Not just cynical, but crazy. The major costs involved in producing a consumer product are spent for designing the device, setting up a factory to produce the device, and hiring & training workers to build the device. You only start making a profit once the factory has pumped out enough of them that the difference between the parts cost and the sales price brings in enough money to pay off that initial startup cost.
Jolla has _already_ done all the startup work, as evidenced by their ability to actually produce about 200 units of the final product. So, they've already spent a whole lot of money here (almost guaranteed more than they raised from Indiegogo). Unless they somehow manage to turn things around and start producing this tablet in volume, they're going to be in a big financial hole here...
But, yes, I agree.
Frankly, to me it would even be accepted if I never received the tablet. I think they are now moving very fast and very progressive with the OS.
I feel quite satisfied, and look forward to where that is heading.
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2015-11-06
, 15:32
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1619
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Going silent is still better than to go out with incomplete information, as you know perfectly well. Explanation is not enough, they need to know when to expect deliveries to take place and if that information is unavailable for variety of reasons, there is no point in trying to explain anything. Doing it will only drag you to answer questions you don't have answers better than Soon(tm) or something like that. It's exactly the king of communication you yourself have been highly critical of.
True, but, if you make a certain promise, those you gave the promise to have every right to expect that the you have taken every step and precaution to make sure that promise will be met. If things happen beyond your control that mean you cannot fulfill that promise, going silent is about the worst thing you can do. People expect at least an explanation, if not some form of a compensation.
Factory problems? Maybe, but those words should come from Jolla, not from Copernicus.
However, they did disclose this information. From Antti Saarnios blog post:
We have faced numerous challenges, ranging from issues with component deliveries, to component issues with the display (we’ve kept you up to date with all the challenges we’ve faced with the display), to securing manufacturing time slots from the factory. All these put together have contributed to a domino effect, negatively impacting assembly and shipment timeline of the Jolla Tablet.
But lets forget it and decide they didn't say it, so we can criticize them for not saying it shall we?
Jolla's management must be rubbing their hands in glee as this exercise clearly proves that they can get away with making any promise in the future without any repercussions should they fail to deliver again.
But of course if it makes you happier, I could switch to extreme negativity claiming they will never deliver, never do anything right, never ever even publish updates to Sailfish "the right way" and the whole project is utterly doomed, failed, bad and EVIL because I don't have access to their inner communications, all of the source code and agreements they have with 3rd parties. I just don't see it advancing anything useful and it's boring, so I guess I'll stick with what you call "letting them get away with anything, rubbing their hands in glee..." at least for now.
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2015-11-06
, 17:08
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#1620
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
Pebble also introduced new OS, own one, that they develop. With new SDK and even after introduced new watch(round one).
I figure it's the same excuse I'd always make. As I understand it, Pebble is a smartwatch company: they set themselves up to design and build smartwatches. The people there were hired expecting that they understood how to design and build smartwatches. They presumably have expertise in designing and building smartwatches. If people don't like their smartwatches, the business will go under.
And, as I understand it, Jolla is a software company. They set themselves up to design and build the Sailfish operating system. The people there were hired expecting that they understood how to design and build operating systems. They presumably have expertise in designing and building operating systems. If people don't like their operating system, their business will go under.
But Jolla's tablet? That's something that, honestly I wouldn't expect they would have much expertise in designing or building. And it's something that, honestly, can flop without destroying the company. Certainly, the success of the tablet isn't crucial to the success of the company.
So yeah, I wish Jolla was a bit more proactive about the tablet, but the tablet is not central to Jolla the way that smartwatches are central to Pebble.
And if Jolla only software company(btw why update 2.0 came later if so) why they produced the tablet. Again you can have as many excuses as you want but after all they did said they would(and after all i belive they would at some point deliver), but they failed at large with dates, delays, communication about it. Updates after months of delay and silence do not really count
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And, as I understand it, Jolla is a software company. They set themselves up to design and build the Sailfish operating system. The people there were hired expecting that they understood how to design and build operating systems. They presumably have expertise in designing and building operating systems. If people don't like their operating system, their business will go under.
But Jolla's tablet? That's something that, honestly I wouldn't expect they would have much expertise in designing or building. And it's something that, honestly, can flop without destroying the company. Certainly, the success of the tablet isn't crucial to the success of the company.
So yeah, I wish Jolla was a bit more proactive about the tablet, but the tablet is not central to Jolla the way that smartwatches are central to Pebble.