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2010-07-09
, 11:39
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Posts: 577 |
Thanked: 699 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Malta
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#102
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Originally Posted by BatPenguin
This is a really silly point. Sales are sales. Selling four 100 euro phones is better than selling one 300 euro phone.
And Nokia really, really wants to sell the expensive phones as well, this is not something they want to be doing, selling cheap phones.
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ford
ford
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2010-07-09
, 11:52
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#103
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Originally Posted by bergie
Indeed it *does* feel a lot like the '80s, with Commodore vs Sinclair vs Atari vs Amstrad vs IBM vs Apple vs who-knows-what, with the slight difference that we are blessed with a bit more commoditized hardware (though the clouds of war over the high-end smartphone/netbook area are certainly gathering).
It is still quite early in the smartphone game, so it is good to have many different approaches to boost competition and innovation. This is more like the desktop computer space of 80s than late-90s Microsoft dominance. I'm quite reluctant to accept the iPhone model as the "definitive smartphone", as I do a lot more with my N900 already...
Besides, with Qt you can write apps for all of them (iOS being the only exception, I think?)
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-07-09
, 12:01
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Posts: 177 |
Thanked: 128 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Espoo, Finland
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#104
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Originally Posted by pantera1989
No, the point isn't silly at all. Nokia's average selling price for phones has been dropping all the time and it's a major problem for them. You get a lot more profit from selling the more expensive phones. The N900 doesn't exactly cost 600 euros to manufacture. R&D costs exist for both cheap and expensive phones. Sony Ericssson's CEO has, for example, said that they won't go into the cheap phones anymore since the margins are so small that they couldn't be able to produce them at prices that compete with Nokia, and still make money. This means that Nokia is not exactly raking in money from cheap phones. The expensive phones are where the money is -- and if a phone's selling price is 300 euros, they probably make much more profit on it than they do by selling three 100 euro phones.
This is a really silly point. Sales are sales. Selling four 100 euro phones is better than selling one 300 euro phone.
The average price of a Nokia phone sold today is down to 62 €. The average price of a Nokia smartphone is now down to 155 €. (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1f67240c-4...44feab49a.html )
These numbers are falling all the time. I won't look up links for this, google it yourself, but the amount of PROFIT Apple makes per iphone is somewhere between 300 - 600 dollars per phone, I seem to recall. This is where Nokia wants to be. So if the magic fairy makes Nokia's 150 € smartphones for free, they only need to sell 2 to get the profit Apple is making.
It's not a silly point. I may have worded it in a not too good manner, but the point is valid: the cheap phone market is Nokia's since not too many of these major companies want to be there at all.
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2010-07-09
, 12:17
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Posts: 1,839 |
Thanked: 2,432 times |
Joined on May 2009
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#105
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Originally Posted by cashclientel
I doubt it. Symbian Foundation got longterm plan where the os gets update every 6 months. Some features for symbian^6 are already talked about. It doesn't mean Nokia will use symbian in 4 years time, but looking at the numbers Nokia is expecting next year where symbian is actually challenging s40 i'd say for now that Nokia has no plans to phase symbian out. They might lower symbian for what it is now if MeeGo takes off.
Obviously, yes.
I think the long game with nokia is to phase out symbian until the 'dumb' phones hit the bottom of the Meego specification then they'll move all onto a single platform. I haven't got a link to this.
Imo it's kind of useless talk about how symbian looks now compared to others as s^4 is the milestone where the avkon(avkon=s60) is changed to qt and the old app base is erased(other than the qt apps made now).
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2010-07-09
, 12:49
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Posts: 183 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#106
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if you all wanna know why its better to invest in high-tech phones
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...627_763714.htm
it takes 188$ parts to make an prox. 800$ phone(unlocked) thats an amazing profit! think how many of those apple sold till now!!
with that in mind, making "expensive" and good phones allows you to charge for those attributes. today, if it doesnt have a touch screen i wouldnt touch it for more than 50$. just making the plastic costs more.
thats why everybody jumps on the smartphone wagon, they know exacly that.
p.s
There is also Bada O.S
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...627_763714.htm
it takes 188$ parts to make an prox. 800$ phone(unlocked) thats an amazing profit! think how many of those apple sold till now!!
with that in mind, making "expensive" and good phones allows you to charge for those attributes. today, if it doesnt have a touch screen i wouldnt touch it for more than 50$. just making the plastic costs more.
thats why everybody jumps on the smartphone wagon, they know exacly that.
p.s
There is also Bada O.S
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2010-07-09
, 12:50
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Posts: 735 |
Thanked: 1,054 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#107
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"Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?"
No, because I like what is a fundamentally more open platform, and sincerely hope that MeeGo does not regress in this regard.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/20...-tablet-phone/
No, because I like what is a fundamentally more open platform, and sincerely hope that MeeGo does not regress in this regard.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/20...-tablet-phone/
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2010-07-09
, 13:09
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Posts: 289 |
Thanked: 560 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ Tampere, Finland
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#108
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Originally Posted by BatPenguin
The point isn't silly, but it certainly isn't as simplistic as you make it out to be.
No, the point isn't silly at all. Nokia's average selling price for phones has been dropping all the time and it's a major problem for them. You get a lot more profit from selling the more expensive phones. The N900 doesn't exactly cost 600 euros to manufacture. R&D costs exist for both cheap and expensive phones. Sony Ericssson's CEO has, for example, said that they won't go into the cheap phones anymore since the margins are so small that they couldn't be able to produce them at prices that compete with Nokia, and still make money. This means that Nokia is not exactly raking in money from cheap phones. The expensive phones are where the money is -- and if a phone's selling price is 300 euros, they probably make much more profit on it than they do by selling three 100 euro phones.
The average price of a Nokia phone sold today is down to 62 €. The average price of a Nokia smartphone is now down to 155 €. (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1f67240c-4...44feab49a.html )
These numbers are falling all the time. I won't look up links for this, google it yourself, but the amount of PROFIT Apple makes per iphone is somewhere between 300 - 600 dollars per phone, I seem to recall. This is where Nokia wants to be. So if the magic fairy makes Nokia's 150 € smartphones for free, they only need to sell 2 to get the profit Apple is making.
It's not a silly point. I may have worded it in a not too good manner, but the point is valid: the cheap phone market is Nokia's since not too many of these major companies want to be there at all.
Isn't the SE CEO implying that they want to be there, but just can't compete with Nokia in the low end?
Q1/2010 almost exactly half of Nokia's devices net sales(3,3 of 6,7 B euros) came from phones with an ASP of 39 euros. Margins are smaller than in smartphones, but wouldn't it be disastrous to just drop all that? There's certainly someone to take that market, so why just give it to them? Could they increase sales of smartphones enough to recoup all that? What's holding them back now? If they can't do it now, why could they do it after dropping basic phones?
Why give up the strong presence in the huge developing markets for short term gains instead of offering models in all price ranges for people to move up the ladder in the long term?
They're behind in the high end smartphones right now, but working hard to fix that while making migrating featurephone/dumbphone users to smartphones by pushing Symbian in the lower price ranges. Competition in the high end is getting bloodier by the day, so it may be smarter than people think to not keep all the eggs in the same basket.
The only purpose for Android in Nokia portfolio I can see would be a few NA only smartphones to gain some initial foothold/recognition in the US which is living the smartphone fever right now to eventually transition them to other Nokia platforms. But as mentioned, it'll be a cold day in hell when we'll see an Android device from Nokia. And I personally like that.
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2010-07-09
, 13:24
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Posts: 177 |
Thanked: 128 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Espoo, Finland
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#109
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Originally Posted by jsa
I'm not really seeing who's advocating them giving up cheap phones...I certainly don't think I said anything of the sort, I was just pointing out that companies make more money by selling expensive phones, the point was simply that Nokia would like to sell more expensive phones, not less.
Could they increase sales of smartphones enough to recoup all that? What's holding them back now? If they can't do it now, why could they do it after dropping basic phones?
Why give up the strong presence in the huge developing markets for short term gains instead of offering models in all price ranges for people to move up the ladder in the long term?
Like you said, there's no reason for them to give up the these current Series40 (that will be Symbian later) devices since they are selling well in certain markets. But it is a problem if that's the only market they're good at. Nokia has a good customer base in developing nations with the cheap phones, that's totally true. That doesn't mean that those customers wouldn't want to buy non-Nokia phones later, if they can afford it. A car analogy will serve fine here: you knew the guy in college who drove an old, rusted Ford. When he got the good job after school, did he buy a Ford? That's the point. Nokia needs good expensive phones too, currently they're having to cut their prices to keep selling them.
What this has to do with the topic, I have no idea.
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2010-07-09
, 13:26
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Posts: 14 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
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#110
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I'm sure I could take the time to read all of this stuff, but to be honest, I've been installing Debian since 2.0 and I kinda like a Debian core to my portable device. I'm sure that someone will say that meego will change all that, but I brought my n900 knowing exactly what it was (and what it wasn't).
Nokia: do what you want, but I for one would like to publicly thank you for creating such a great little device. :: Thank you ::
Nokia: do what you want, but I for one would like to publicly thank you for creating such a great little device. :: Thank you ::
Besides, with Qt you can write apps for all of them (iOS being the only exception, I think?)