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2010-04-29
, 12:42
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#52
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
A couple casual thoughts...
The apps are the problem. You can see this on the Joggler with Mer 0.17 & OpenGL: you get a Hildon Desktop, you can install some apps, but if it's not ABI compatible with Maemo you're going to have a lot smaller pool of apps. Even if it did get large scale adoption, there're also API issues.
The first few iterations of MeeGo, and the core FLOSS apps it comes with, will give us an indication of whether MeeGo as a day-to-day OS for the N8x0 is viable.
Perhaps Mer^2 and using that as a place for further playing with the GL drivers will help with the MeeGo-on-N8x0 adaption layer. However, this is one that Stskeeps can best comment on - and whether he's getting/got enough assistance from the community on the N8x0 MeeGo h/w adaption layer.
yes, it is about the apps. There are 500+ Maemo 4 apps. As much as people have investments in the N8x0 devices, aren't there as much if not more investments in the Maemo 4 software?
Can we afford to wait for a few iterations (6 month cycle) of MeeGo? I think not.
stskeeps can work on the n8x0 h/w adaption layer, but shouldn't someone also work on the "Maemo API adaption" layer?
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2010-04-29
, 13:02
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@ UK
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#53
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Originally Posted by SD69
Have fun :-)
yes, it is about the apps. There are 500+ Maemo 4 apps. As much as people have investments in the N8x0 devices, aren't there as much if not more investments in the Maemo 4 software? [...] stskeeps can work on the n8x0 h/w adaption layer, but shouldn't someone also work on the "Maemo API adaption" layer?
First thoughts are that you - or the person found - could investigate rebuilding, and repackaging, the diablo libhildon (and other libraries) so that they run on MeeGo, possibly alongside any libhildon that MeeGo may ship (or have available).
It might not even be too technical; largely packaging and minor Gtk tweaks/patches.
If you can put together a compelling argument, I'd be happy to have the council take it to Nokia. Although it'd be a hardsell to get them to sponsor someone for it IMHO. It's also predicated on the adaption layer actually getting a workable MeeGo base on the N8x0. If not, being able to run diablo apps on MeeGo's not going to be much use.
However, given MeeGo is a "first class distro" it will have apps written for it (especially given the new Qt SDKs), whereas Mer never got to the point where anyone really considered writing an app "for Mer". If you want to run diablo apps, run diablo.
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2010-04-29
, 13:25
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#54
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I'm not very active, but a while ago I noticed that posts from Stskeeps were worth reading. Often I'll skim threads looking for posts or posters which seem more interesting. I've been really impressed by your contributions.
I've been vaguely following Mer, the community SSU, and the 3d drivers. I've been very pleased with the progress, slow as it's been at times. While it's been a bumpy road at times, it gives me ongoing hope for my N810.
Thank you!
I've been vaguely following Mer, the community SSU, and the 3d drivers. I've been very pleased with the progress, slow as it's been at times. While it's been a bumpy road at times, it gives me ongoing hope for my N810.
Thank you!
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2010-04-29
, 13:41
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@ Barcelona
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#55
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I have my doubts (pardon me for being naive): What are we reviewing here? Stskeeps performance as distmaster, or Stskeeps performance as Mer lead developer?
Mosts posts seem to be talking about both, but I think that the only job that might need reviewing is "distmastering" (because the other one is not paid one, do not misunderstand me ;P ).
From what I understand about the distmaster role -- he should be facilitating mer-like efforts, not developing them all by himself!
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-04-29 at 13:48.
Mosts posts seem to be talking about both, but I think that the only job that might need reviewing is "distmastering" (because the other one is not paid one, do not misunderstand me ;P ).
From what I understand about the distmaster role -- he should be facilitating mer-like efforts, not developing them all by himself!
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-04-29 at 13:48.
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2010-04-29
, 14:25
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@ North Texas, USA
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#56
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Originally Posted by lma
That's a great point Ima which often gets overlooked in analysis. If nothing else, Mer was a small but powerful demonstration of what the community *can* do vis-a-vis MeeGo. It means no excuses allowed for closed framework development.
However even if Mer-the-distribution is now a dead end I don't see Mer-the-project as a failure. If you squint just a little bit you can see all its principles living on in Meego, and I think it's fair to say that it would be very different had Mer not existed to show a better way of doing things.
Let's focus on the successes and lessons, and move forward. I trust that Stskeeps has learned from them and factored that into his approach going forward.
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2010-04-29
, 16:03
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@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#57
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Originally Posted by danramos
Why would it be haughty? You're clearly missing the thrust of the position if you believe end-users are frequently and directly affected in obvious ways by it.
May I counter that it might be haughty of you to presume that end users' experiences and opinions count for little to nothing in this conversation? What is the distmaster's point of existing if not to BE the distmaster of a dist (pardon my end-userness but I assumed, in this context about operating systems, we're talking about a distribution).
Originally Posted by danramos
It was the Mer platform, which, stemming from its origins as Maemo Reconstructed is designed to reinvent Maemo in a way that's sustainable in the long-term. Effectively, it's the blueprint that MeeGo ended up using (unwittingly or not, I don't know). On the practical scale, many patches and architecture changes to both Maemo and MeeGo came out of Mer's requirements.
If he was platform focused, then which platform was he focusing on? I'm not sure I got the impression that he focused on any one in particular. Did you mean the 'maemo' platform or did you mean a particular piece of hardware platform?
Assuming the former, that appears to be all for nothing now--which also blows away your point about 'long-term'. Would have learned as much working with uLinux.
So, yeah, the long-term definitely applies here.
Originally Posted by danramos
Which comes from a variety of causes, most of them outside the control and, initially, the foresight of those involved in the project.
Near as I can tell, it never got to a point where anyone outside of kernel coding could contribute anything worth doing yet.
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Ryan Abel
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2010-04-30
, 00:14
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#58
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
Thanks for responding. Notice that the project has merit regardless of whether stskeeps gets a workable MeeGo base on the N8x0, because it will be possible to run the 500+ Diablo apps on any MeeGo device.
If you can put together a compelling argument, I'd be happy to have the council take it to Nokia. Although it'd be a hardsell to get them to sponsor someone for it IMHO. It's also predicated on the adaption layer actually getting a workable MeeGo base on the N8x0. If not, being able to run diablo apps on MeeGo's not going to be much use.
However, given MeeGo is a "first class distro" it will have apps written for it (especially given the new Qt SDKs), whereas Mer never got to the point where anyone really considered writing an app "for Mer". If you want to run diablo apps, run diablo.
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2010-04-30
, 03:29
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#59
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Allow me to start with stskeeps has always been that one person that when they posted, I read each word with my full attention. Stuff about Mer gave me hope, I figured early that there would be some obstacles due to the nature of certain bits of the N810 being somewhat closed... and I showed patience.
I also have to admit to stopping posting here for a while mainly because I couldn't stand the rampaging (still ongoing) "You don't own a N900, why are you here!?" attitude(s) by a lot of folks that are quite damn near here. So I missed it when Mer stopped, Mer^2 started and now the possibly move for MeeGo on the N810.
I'd say that stskeeps you've always done a commendable job in regards to communication of things going on behind the scene - something I wish even Nokia would have learned from you.
I don't know all that you do, it's honestly way over my head. And I don't even mind admitting that. If anything though, I have one very simple request - please catch me up. What's happening for my N810? Do you mind catching up my simpleton mind since it seems like I've missed out on some very key announcements.
With that said... keep up the good work. Stick around. This community is more whole with you, than without. Through you, I feel rather good that at least somebody is tinkering with the base OS on the tablets. And the fact that I've seen you show patience with people that I would have lost my religion... that's a virtue that's kept me around and hopeful.
One day, I might end up using something other than OS2008 on my N810, and I feel like you're one of the few people that will make that happen.
You have my vote of confidence.
I also have to admit to stopping posting here for a while mainly because I couldn't stand the rampaging (still ongoing) "You don't own a N900, why are you here!?" attitude(s) by a lot of folks that are quite damn near here. So I missed it when Mer stopped, Mer^2 started and now the possibly move for MeeGo on the N810.
I'd say that stskeeps you've always done a commendable job in regards to communication of things going on behind the scene - something I wish even Nokia would have learned from you.
I don't know all that you do, it's honestly way over my head. And I don't even mind admitting that. If anything though, I have one very simple request - please catch me up. What's happening for my N810? Do you mind catching up my simpleton mind since it seems like I've missed out on some very key announcements.
With that said... keep up the good work. Stick around. This community is more whole with you, than without. Through you, I feel rather good that at least somebody is tinkering with the base OS on the tablets. And the fact that I've seen you show patience with people that I would have lost my religion... that's a virtue that's kept me around and hopeful.
One day, I might end up using something other than OS2008 on my N810, and I feel like you're one of the few people that will make that happen.
You have my vote of confidence.
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2010-04-30
, 03:57
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#60
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Originally Posted by gerbick
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48929
If anything though, I have one very simple request - please catch me up. What's happening for my N810?
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All times are GMT. The time now is 09:43.
The approach taken by the page you link to isn't necessary on Maemo/Mer (it's basically run-standalone.sh). However, no-one's succeeded in auto-Hildonisation using LD_PRELOAD. Perhaps you'd like to run with it and deliver something workable?
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